fonsfaq sub

[ex_pippin880]

Hey guys! I'm doing asexuality/aromanticism for the Frequently (or Not So Frequently) Asked Questions project and I've been asked something that I can't answer. Would anyone like to take it?

The question is:
What's your favourite and least favourite thing to read about asexuality in fiction?

And I... can't think of a single example of or reference to (textual/canon) asexuality in books/fiction I've read. :|

Comments

[tree]

the one that always occurs to me is charlotte lucas in pride and prejudice. she specifically says, "i am not romantic", and only marries in order to have her own house and the security of a husband and his income.

[ex_pippin880]

Oh wow! I wouldn't have expected that in her stuff.

(/philistine)

[boundbooks]

Dunno if it counts, but as I mentioned in my question, it's canon in Mercedes Lackey's Vows & Honor series that one of her main characters doesn't feel sexual desire. It's textual that she's aromantic.

The character in question, Tarma, had her ability to feel sexual desire removed as part of a magical religious pact with her goddess. Kind of like joining the priesthood, I guess, but as part of the ceremony the goddess seals off the ability to feel sexual desire. This applies to everyone who undergoes this particular ceremony, so this applies to any character one meets in this universe who is 'Swordsworn.' Said characters are also portrayed as highly respected professionals who have happy, fulfilled lives with friends, relatives, colleagues, and in general Making A Difference for their people.

So, I don't know if it would count as textual/canon asexuality, but Tarma's definitely a character who feels neither sexual desire nor romantic inclinations.

[ex_pippin880]

had her ability to feel sexual desire removed as part of a magical religious pact with her goddess

That is... rather incredibly problematic from an asexual POV. :/

[boundbooks]

That's the part I wasn't sure about. It's why, on reflection, I was rather hesitant to call her explicitly asexual. It's definitely a 'magical origin/outside interference' scenario. =/

[boundbooks]

Also, my sincere apologies for bringing up something that seems like it's Textbook Total Fail. I'm totally new at articulating concepts about this, so I'm sure I'm going to be accidentally fail-y in the process. My apologies! >_

[pyrofennec]

Okay how did you miss that it'd be problematic. Her sexuality is removed. That's not asexuality.

[angrboda]

Favourite: If a character is either or both and it's treated as if it's something normal, and not just as a way to get them away from their current 'wrong' partner and swept off their feet by the potential 'real' partner. Because to that character it is normal.

Least favourite: When asexual = frigid. It's not the same thing. Or the other being a bad lover, or it's not the 'right' partner or whatever. This can happen, yes, but it's not ALWAYS so. (And it's bloody difficult to be a fantastic lover when you don't really find it all that pleasant and occasionally slightly painful) Basically when asexuality/aromantisism is portraited as everything that's wrong with a relationship.

[angrboda]

I just realised the above is really just the same issue from both angles, the positive and the negative portrayal.

Eh, it's not something I look for in fiction anyway, so I don't really consider it if I come across it.

[boundbooks]

I missed that it would be problematic because I didn't think through all the implications. Basically, I messed up.

[pyrofennec]

because I didn't think

You don't say.

[themistoklis]

Least favorite -- there being an "alien" or "nonhuman" quality to the asexual character, like that's the only reason to explain why they might be asexual. A lot of characters interpreted as ace -- that I've run across -- are in some way portrayed as sociopathic, antisocial, alien, or inhuman in the original media.

I liked Karen Healey's ace character, Kevin, in Guardian of the Dead. There wasn't a lot of 101 and maybe there could have been a bit more discussion, but it wasn't his defining character trait, and he wasn't mean or rude or anything. He did have magical blood, but he wasn't treated as alien.

I've never seen it, except in fanfiction, but I would like some measure of 101 beyond "not being interested in sex" (which, although I don't have the book anymore, I think was how Healey had Kevin explain himself). It doesn't have to be an entire AVEN primer or wiki page, but I'd like at least a mention of romantic and aromantic and maybe something about varying degrees of comfort with sex.

[pyrofennec]

Heh, I'm writing something where an entire species is asexual and treat being sexual as something non-default and strange. I'm asexual and this, basically, was my answer to the average better-and-sexier-than-thou fantasy race--you know how a lot of people find escapism in pointy-eared white supremacists Mary Sues elves? Mine is "ungendered, asexual, and not white, lol fuck you Tolkien." It didn't occur to me back then that associating asexuality with the non-human was problematic. :/

I do have a human asexual character in the same story, though.

[pipisafoat]

He did have magical blood, but he wasn't treated as alien.
Also that the magical blood was not used as an excuse for his asexuality!

Um, I liked him, too. Mostly because it was just a part of him and not his defining character trait, as you said.


I am afraid of in the future it becoming a thing like Dumbledore's homosexuality - JKR never said he was with a woman, therefore he was gay. I don't want to see "but I never said Character X was with someone, so clearly they were asexual!" But, um, now I'm just off-topic.

[ex_pippin880]

Thank you!

(I once had a conversation with someone where they were going "but why do you get so angry about this" (lol) so I asked them to tell me as many aces as they could who were neither non-human or inhuman in some way.

Their first answer was "Dexter".

Yep. Serial killers: just a normal part of human society.)

[pyrofennec]

No-o. Rowling said something much worse:

And it’s relevant only in so much as he fell in love and was made an utter fool of by love. He lost his moral compass completely when he fell in love and I think subsequently became very mistrusting of his own judgment in those matters so became quite asexual. He led a celibate and bookish life.

You see, he started out as gay but became asexual because one love affair went wrong, since "asexual" is something you turn into and not, like, a legit orientation or anything. Ho ho ho. (Her handling of his homosexuality is iffy as shit too, but that's neither here nor there.)

[ex_pippin880]

JKR's handling of Dumbledore is so hinky and *ist in so many different ways. :/

[ex_pippin880]

It seems like the worst things about how asexuality is treated in fiction are pretty much the same as the worst things how it's treated irl. Which makes a lot of sense, really.

[pipisafoat]

Oh jesus. After the initial "btw gay" I just threw my hands in the air and had nothing else to do with it. Blech. I am glad I missed such a thing when it happened, but jesus god REALLY, woman?

He can lead a celibate and bookish life! I am okay with that sentence. Why didn't she just start and end with that one and be done with it without insulting people?

*headdesk* what the fuck, world.

[pipisafoat]

No kidding.

[pyrofennec]

I adore it when people conflate celibacy with asexuality! And by adore I mean "purge this person with a blowtorch."

[jhumor]

Favorite: When Asexual relationships get treated like any other relationships. The Asexual(s) are treated no different because of their Ace-ness, etc. (Just because I'm an Ace, doesn't somehow mean I'm NOT a woman. I have no drive/desire for sex. So what? I still have friends and relatives. I still have RELATIONSHIPS, go to work, etc.)

Least: Asexuals are ONLY alien, actually 'celibate', had a bad 'love affair' and 'decided' to be asexual. They have some other 'not normal' attribute (IE: serial killer - weird person living in their parent's basement, etc.) or were raped, sexually assaulted, etc and therefore 'became Ace.'

The problem with finding examples: Aces are 1% of the world's population, so you can safely assume that most writing out there is done by Sexuals. Since Aces aren't understood by Sexuals (in the same way, that I as an Ace don't get the 'big deal' about sex), they write only from their sexual perspective. This isn't necessarily a problem in and of itself, but since Sexuals can't get what it is to be an Ace, their writing of us becomes a caricature of what it is to be Ace, rather than an in-depth 'get in their head' kind of approach to how Aces view the world around them.

The Parallel I draw is this: There isn't a lot of 'Disabled' fiction out there written BY those with disabilities. I've come across a FEW and let me tell you, the difference is STAGGERING! It's hard to describe, but there are just things that the disabled include in their writing that able-bodied people would never be able to, because they just don't know/wouldn't think it's a big deal to include the thought processes/physical actions. It's the same for Sexuals writing about Asexuality.

[themistoklis]

:P I'm also agender.

I love fantasy fiction. It's probably my favorite genre ever, and it's the majority of what I write (in original fiction). But I hesitate at giving aces magical powers or making them a part of a magical race (unless there are also lots of non-ace people with magic, or non-ace members of the magical race). I mean, if there was an entire race of aliens who were all gay, or all bisexual, I would imagine that it would be equally problematic.

Not having read your stuff I don't want to judge. If I'd come across the race in a novel written by a sexual person, I'd have put it down immediately. If you have a prominent human asexual character, I think that helps balance it out.

I would just be very wary of approaching it as a reader, because the majority of characters interpreted as asexual are also cast in some way as not human, or at least treated as somehow not human in the "right" way. And while I love aliens and fantasy races, I'm also tired of that being nearly the only way that people like me can exist.

[themistoklis]

Also that the magical blood was not used as an excuse for his asexuality!

Oh, you're right! Yeah, that was great.

*nods* He had other interests and skills, and was invested in his friendships.

I don't want to see it handled that way, yeah. That wouldn't be a good way to handle aromanticism, either.

[themistoklis]

Ugh. Dexter makes it very clear that he experiences few emotions. In the books, he makes it extra super clear that he does not really consider himself human. I watch the show and read the books, but I hate when people use him as an example of an ace person.

Sherlock Holmes

[ytak]

I just kind of stumbled onto the community but I really must add Sherlock Holmes as Doyle wrote him (and as Benedict Cumberbatch plays him in BBC Sherlock despite what fanfic writers think). The only woman he's ever admired is Irene Adler and that's because she outsmarted him. He isn't attracted to her physically or romantically.